WATER STORAGE TANK AND PUMPS ARRANGEMENT FOR FIRE AND SERVICE WATER

[Cesar Lira]

I have a Question.



We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park,
this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches
diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire
sprinklers connection and another one for services water.

In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and
diesel, electric and booster pumps.

There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?,
to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the fire
protection.



Thanks.

CLR



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[Bruce Verhei]

Cesar,

If you are specifically working with FM to establish a Highly Protected Risk property it is best that you contact their project representative directly. They will put you in contact with their fire protection engineer.

Or is FM instead being used as an available set of standards?

Is your question how to account for water volume in normal sanitary and industrial use, while maintaining adequate reserve for fire sprinkler systems?

Best

Bruce Verhei

Post by Cesar Lira
I have a Question.
We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park, this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire sprinklers connection and another one for services water.
In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and diesel, electric and booster pumps.
There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?, to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the fire protection.
Thanks.
CLR
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[Cesar Lira]

Thanks Bruce. You are right, and the question was about the maintaining volume water for fire while the same tank is for process or domestic water.

In other cases we put the suction of domestic services water above of the volume for fire service but in this case, we will use the same pipe to feed fire service and domestic water



| | ____________________________________________TO FIRE SERVICE

| | | | |

| | FIRE P. DOMESTIC WATER P. |_______TO DOMESTIC WATER SERVICE

| | | |

|______|-------------------------------------





PROBLEMS:

AVOID TO DOMESTIC WATER SERVICE EMPTY THE FIRE P. CAPACITY VOLUMEN

PRESSURES OF PUMPS, IF DOM. PUMP IS HIGER THAN FIRE PUMPS IT WORKS AS JOCKEY, BUT WITH HIGH FLOW, IT COULD NOT RUN THE FIRE DIESEL PUMP BECAUSE THE SAME BOOSTER PUMP COULD HAND THE FLOW FOR FIRE BUT THE BOOSTER IS NOT A APPROVE EQUIPMENT FOR THIS USE.

















De: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org] En nombre de Bruce Verhei
Enviado el: jueves, 8 de diciembre de 2016 04:57 p. m.
Para: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Asunto: Re: WATER STORAGE TANK AND PUMPS ARRANGEMENT FOR FIRE AND SERVICE WATER



Cesar,



If you are specifically working with FM to establish a Highly Protected Risk property it is best that you contact their project representative directly. They will put you in contact with their fire protection engineer.



Or is FM instead being used as an available set of standards?



Is your question how to account for water volume in normal sanitary and industrial use, while maintaining adequate reserve for fire sprinkler systems?



Best



Bruce Verhei


On Dec 8, 2016, at 15:37, Cesar Lira < <mailto:***@demek.com> ***@demek.com> wrote:

I have a Question.



We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park, this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire sprinklers connection and another one for services water.

In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and diesel, electric and booster pumps.

There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?, to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the fire protection.



Thanks.

CLR




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[edkvining]

Is an FM job you should consult with them for their requirements


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Cesar Lira <***@demek.com>
Date: 12/08/2016 3:37 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: WATER STORAGE TANK AND PUMPS ARRANGEMENT FOR FIRE AND SERVICE WATER

I have a Question. We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park, this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire sprinklers connection and another one for services water.In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and diesel, electric and booster pumps.There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?, to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the  fire protection. Thanks.CLR













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[Jim Davidson]

Cesar,
Before you start you will need to get some help from a engineer familiar with site development. The engineer will need to develop minimum and maximum domestic and service/process water usage and peak domestic and service/process water servics usage and duration of domestic/process flows. Afterwards you then have to look at the various sprinkler system demands and hose stream demands.
This type of project is not to be designed on the minimum requirements of the codes but on a reasonable domestic and fire flow requirement based on a worst case scenario. Each building's exposure to each other, operation housed in each building, internal processes and exterior processes, chemical tank farms, outside fkammable liquids storage, etc.
Then all of the pump house equipment, piping, valves and underground must meet AWWA requirements for drinking water. (Usually stainless steel), underground piping will need to be chlorinated to AWWA standards and then water samples will need to be tested at a certified testing laboratory  (usually cert by the state's Dept of Environmental Resources) to prove there is no bacteria in the piping that can harm humans. 
When you design the tank you will need to dedicated a specific volume of the tank for fire use only. At the same time insure that the refill water will provide circulation within the tank to prevent stagnation of the water being stored.
Some jurisdictions and water authorities will require this pump station to have emergeny back up power for the domestic pumps, sometimes the fire pump will need to be on the emergency power, or if FM the pump house will require an electric motor and diesel engine driven pumps.
In order to provide economical operation of the domestic water pumps, the domestic water pumps should be in a triplex or quadplex pump skid arrangement with VSD drivers and controllers. This allows the minimum number of pumps to operate during reduced flow periods.  The type of domestic pump skid the work well is the constant pressure pump skid and controller. This configuration will supply a constant pressur at the pump skid outlet under varying flows.
This design requires excellent communication between all stakeholders.
Have a fire safe day!
Regards
Jim Davidson 

Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 6.
-------- Original message --------From: Cesar Lira <***@demek.com> Date: 12/8/16 18:46 (GMT-05:00) To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: WATER STORAGE TANK AND PUMPS ARRANGEMENT FOR FIRE AND SERVICE WATER
I have a Question. We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park, this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire sprinklers connection and another one for services water.In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and diesel, electric and booster pumps.There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?, to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the  fire protection. Thanks.CLR













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[Jerry Van Kolken]

I’ve only done this type of work for small rural house, so I have a question. Do you have to have a separate domestic pump? Could you have a single pump feeding both services? I understand the pressure requirements are different for the type of services, but couldn’t the pump ramp up as the demand is needed?







Jerry Van Kolken

Millennium Fire Protection

[phone]

[C***@ch2m.com]

Are you installing very big tank that feeds water to the underground pipe which goes to all of the 20 buildings AND putting in some kind of water storage tank inside each building?

Are you planning one pump house to serve the whole park or will each building have their own pumps?


Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
CH2M
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
***@ch2m.com


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cesar Lira
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2016 6:37 PM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: WATER STORAGE TANK AND PUMPS ARRANGEMENT FOR FIRE AND SERVICE WATER [EXTERNAL]

I have a Question.

We need to install a water storage tank, and pumps for a industrial park, this industrial park has a 20 buildings feed with a single 12 inches diameter pipe. It has two branches for every building one for fire sprinklers connection and another one for services water.
In pumps room we will to have storage tank volume for both systems, and diesel, electric and booster pumps.
There is any rule for this pumps arrangement according to FM requirements?, to avoid service or process systems use the part of water of the fire protection.

Thanks.
CLR

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