ESFR Sprinkler Heads

[James Crawford]

We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing warehouse is
protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was constructed the AHJ
has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.



Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition, can
you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would need K17
heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the existing warehouse
space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the existing warehouse to
match?





Thank you





James Crawford

Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.

Phone [phone]

Fax [phone]

Cel 604-790-0938

Email ***@phaserfire.ca

[Roland Huggins]

you can have multiple design basis covering different portions of a building. They could present different K-factors or types of sprinklers. There are explicit requirements that address the interface between them.

What do you mean the AHJ has dropped the pressure? Does that mean the water purveyor has dropped the pressure to the area or that the AHJ has imposed a greater reduction on the actual supply as a safety factor. In other words, is the existing system still providing adequate protection (not an issue for imposed reductions) ?


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>

Post by James Crawford
We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing warehouse is
protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was constructed the AHJ
has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.
Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition, can
you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would need K17
heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the existing warehouse
space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the existing warehouse to
match?
Thank you
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

[James Crawford]

Thanks Roland

The AHJ has impose a greater reduction and if I use the new pressures the
existing system is 3 psi short.

My concern with using two different K factor heads is the overlap area where
two different pressures would be required causing over discharge on the K17
heads.


Thank you


James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
Email ***@phaserfire.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Roland Huggins
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:05 AM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: ESFR Sprinkler Heads

you can have multiple design basis covering different portions of a
building. They could present different K-factors or types of sprinklers.
There are explicit requirements that address the interface between them.

What do you mean the AHJ has dropped the pressure? Does that mean the water
purveyor has dropped the pressure to the area or that the AHJ has imposed a
greater reduction on the actual supply as a safety factor. In other words,
is the existing system still providing adequate protection (not an issue for
imposed reductions) ?


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>

Post by James Crawford
We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing
warehouse is protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was
constructed the AHJ has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.
Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition,
can you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would
need K17 heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the
existing warehouse space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the
existing warehouse to match?
Thank you
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
er.org

[R***@aerofire.com]

We always split the systems where the K factor changes. However, if the addition is small the total area is under 40k sqft you would probably have to change all the heads on that system to K17.
Ron F

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of James Crawford
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:21 AM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: ESFR Sprinkler Heads

Thanks Roland

The AHJ has impose a greater reduction and if I use the new pressures the existing system is 3 psi short.

My concern with using two different K factor heads is the overlap area where two different pressures would be required causing over discharge on the K17 heads.


Thank you


James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
Email ***@phaserfire.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Roland Huggins
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:05 AM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: ESFR Sprinkler Heads

you can have multiple design basis covering different portions of a building. They could present different K-factors or types of sprinklers.
There are explicit requirements that address the interface between them.

What do you mean the AHJ has dropped the pressure? Does that mean the water purveyor has dropped the pressure to the area or that the AHJ has imposed a greater reduction on the actual supply as a safety factor. In other words, is the existing system still providing adequate protection (not an issue for imposed reductions) ?


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>

Post by James Crawford
We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing
warehouse is protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was
constructed the AHJ has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.
Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition,
can you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would
need K17 heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the
existing warehouse space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the
existing warehouse to match?
Thank you
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
er.org

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
***@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

[Parsley Consulting]

I don't know what your AHJ is going to ask for James, however you might
find some guidance in 11.2.1(1) which covers adjacent hazards or design
methods, and requires the more demanding design to extend 15'-0" beyond
if there's no barrier separating them. Sub items (2) and (3) might be
helpful as well. I seem to remember similar language in 12.3 (1)-(2)
and (3) also.
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone [phone]*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/>

***

Post by James Crawford
We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing warehouse is
protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was constructed the AHJ
has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.
Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition, can
you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would need K17
heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the existing warehouse
space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the existing warehouse to
match?
Thank you
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

[R***@aerofire.com]

Another issue is the use of new K14's that are not approved above 35' roof height. We are currently modifying an old 90 psi K14 system. Since we have to replace any sprinklers we take out with new can we use new K14's at 90 psi?

We mix K factors all the time in buildings with roof heights that go from 47' down to 40'. We change from K25's to K17's when the roof is less than 45'.
Ron F

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 11:08 AM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: ESFR Sprinkler Heads

I don't know what your AHJ is going to ask for James, however you might find some guidance in 11.2.1(1) which covers adjacent hazards or design methods, and requires the more demanding design to extend 15'-0" beyond if there's no barrier separating them. Sub items (2) and (3) might be helpful as well. I seem to remember similar language in 12.3 (1)-(2) and (3) also.
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone [phone]*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/>

***

Post by James Crawford
We are doing an addition to an existing warehouse, the existing
warehouse is protected with ESFR K14 uprights, since the building was
constructed the AHJ has dropped the water pressures in the area by 10 psi.
Due to the pressure drop I cannot use the K14 heads for the addition,
can you mix ESFR sprinkler heads in the same warehouse area, I would
need K17 heads for the addition, The addition would be open to the
existing warehouse space. Or do I need to change all the heads in the
existing warehouse to match?
Thank you
James Crawford
Phaser Fire Protection Ltd.
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]
Cel 604-790-0938
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
er.org