Discussion:
ESFR and Skylights
M***@aerofire.com
2015-08-19 15:46:25 UTC
Permalink
I have a specific question for the forumites and any 13 TC members willing to weigh in on the issue. The question: "Is it acceptable to install an ESFR sprinkler head directly below a skylight measuring 4'x8' (32 SF) where the general area ceiling to deflector distance is 12" and the top of the skylight to deflector distance is 24" up to 30"?"

My path through NFPA 13 2010 Edition starts at 8.5.1, then 8.5.1.3, then 8.5.4.1.1, 8.5.7, 8.5.7.1, and finally 8.12.4.1.

Paraphrasing;

8.5.1 General - tells us that sprinklers shall be located, spaced, and positioned properly.
8.5.1.3 tells us that the requirements of 8.5.2 through 8.5.7 SHALL APPLY TO ALL SPRINKLER TYPES (emphasis mine) unless modified by more restrictive rules in 8.6 through 8.12.
8.5.4.1.1 tells us the deflector distance to ceiling is determined by the sprinkler type and construction type.
8.5.7 Skylights, 8.5.7.1 and.2 tell us that we are not required to install sprinkler heads in skylights (or ceiling pockets)meeting certain specific requirements (which we do).
8.12.4 ESFR Deflector Below Ceilings - Nothing in the text of this section states an exception to 8.5.7.1.

Any comments are appreciated.

Mark at Aero
602 820-7894
Roland Huggins
2015-08-19 16:25:11 UTC
Permalink
The 2016 edition added text in 8.5 saying to ignore skylights and use the plane of the ceiling for defining distance below ceiling. Being in the general section, it applies to all types of sprinklers.

Roland


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>
Post by M***@aerofire.com
I have a specific question for the forumites and any 13 TC members willing to weigh in on the issue. The question: "Is it acceptable to install an ESFR sprinkler head directly below a skylight measuring 4'x8' (32 SF) where the general area ceiling to deflector distance is 12" and the top of the skylight to deflector distance is 24" up to 30"?"
My path through NFPA 13 2010 Edition starts at 8.5.1, then 8.5.1.3, then 8.5.4.1.1, 8.5.7, 8.5.7.1, and finally 8.12.4.1.
Paraphrasing;
8.5.1 General - tells us that sprinklers shall be located, spaced, and positioned properly.
8.5.1.3 tells us that the requirements of 8.5.2 through 8.5.7 SHALL APPLY TO ALL SPRINKLER TYPES (emphasis mine) unless modified by more restrictive rules in 8.6 through 8.12.
8.5.4.1.1 tells us the deflector distance to ceiling is determined by the sprinkler type and construction type.
8.5.7 Skylights, 8.5.7.1 and.2 tell us that we are not required to install sprinkler heads in skylights (or ceiling pockets)meeting certain specific requirements (which we do).
8.12.4 ESFR Deflector Below Ceilings - Nothing in the text of this section states an exception to 8.5.7.1.
Any comments are appreciated.
Mark at Aero
602 820-7894
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Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
M***@aerofire.com
2015-08-19 17:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Roland,
Is the additional text intended to clarify the issue (that sprinklers are not required to be installed in skylights per 8.5.7), or create an exception to be referenced from 8.12.4? I only ask because it seems clear to me that this has been the design intent since at least the 2010 edition.

Mark at Aero
602 820-7894

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 9:25 AM
To: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: ESFR and Skylights

The 2016 edition added text in 8.5 saying to ignore skylights and use the plane of the ceiling for defining distance below ceiling. Being in the general section, it applies to all types of sprinklers.

Roland


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>
Post by M***@aerofire.com
I have a specific question for the forumites and any 13 TC members willing to weigh in on the issue. The question: "Is it acceptable to install an ESFR sprinkler head directly below a skylight measuring 4'x8' (32 SF) where the general area ceiling to deflector distance is 12" and the top of the skylight to deflector distance is 24" up to 30"?"
My path through NFPA 13 2010 Edition starts at 8.5.1, then 8.5.1.3, then 8.5.4.1.1, 8.5.7, 8.5.7.1, and finally 8.12.4.1.
Paraphrasing;
8.5.1 General - tells us that sprinklers shall be located, spaced, and positioned properly.
8.5.1.3 tells us that the requirements of 8.5.2 through 8.5.7 SHALL APPLY TO ALL SPRINKLER TYPES (emphasis mine) unless modified by more restrictive rules in 8.6 through 8.12.
8.5.4.1.1 tells us the deflector distance to ceiling is determined by the sprinkler type and construction type.
8.5.7 Skylights, 8.5.7.1 and.2 tell us that we are not required to install sprinkler heads in skylights (or ceiling pockets)meeting certain specific requirements (which we do).
8.12.4 ESFR Deflector Below Ceilings - Nothing in the text of this section states an exception to 8.5.7.1.
Any comments are appreciated.
Mark at Aero
602 820-7894
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
J.P. Merlino/Ing. L.Lagomarsino & Asoc.
2015-08-20 14:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Does it imply that the ESFR sprinkler can be installed with a longer
deflector distance to ceiling (skylight in this case) than it is permitted
by the datasheet/listing of the sprinkler?

Also the temperature rating of the sprinkler must be addressed or a sheet
must be placed on top of the sprinkler.

regards

J.M.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-***@lists.firesprinkler.org]
En nombre de Roland Huggins
Enviado el: miércoles, 19 de agosto de 2015 01:25 p.m.
Para: ***@lists.firesprinkler.org
Asunto: Re: ESFR and Skylights

The 2016 edition added text in 8.5 saying to ignore skylights and use the
plane of the ceiling for defining distance below ceiling. Being in the
general section, it applies to all types of sprinklers.

Roland


Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org <http://www.firesprinkler.org/>
Post by M***@aerofire.com
I have a specific question for the forumites and any 13 TC members willing
to weigh in on the issue. The question: "Is it acceptable to install an ESFR
sprinkler head directly below a skylight measuring 4'x8' (32 SF) where the
general area ceiling to deflector distance is 12" and the top of the
skylight to deflector distance is 24" up to 30"?"
Post by M***@aerofire.com
My path through NFPA 13 2010 Edition starts at 8.5.1, then 8.5.1.3, then
8.5.4.1.1, 8.5.7, 8.5.7.1, and finally 8.12.4.1.
Post by M***@aerofire.com
Paraphrasing;
8.5.1 General - tells us that sprinklers shall be located, spaced, and positioned properly.
8.5.1.3 tells us that the requirements of 8.5.2 through 8.5.7 SHALL APPLY
TO ALL SPRINKLER TYPES (emphasis mine) unless modified by more restrictive
rules in 8.6 through 8.12.
Post by M***@aerofire.com
8.5.4.1.1 tells us the deflector distance to ceiling is determined by the
sprinkler type and construction type.
Post by M***@aerofire.com
8.5.7 Skylights, 8.5.7.1 and.2 tell us that we are not required to install
sprinkler heads in skylights (or ceiling pockets)meeting certain specific
requirements (which we do).
Post by M***@aerofire.com
8.12.4 ESFR Deflector Below Ceilings - Nothing in the text of this section
states an exception to 8.5.7.1.
Post by M***@aerofire.com
Any comments are appreciated.
Mark at Aero
602 820-7894
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
***@lists.firesprinkler.org
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org


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